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 Fiore dei Liberi and Primoris
 Where is Fiore's spear?
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steel bonnet
Master Chat Remedy

United Kingdom
151 Posts

Posted - 19 Apr 2008 :  20:53:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is it just me not looking hard enough or are the sections on polearms/spears missing from the Fiore stuff thus far translated?
I'd love to have a look at this stuff if someone can point me in the right direction.

Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs.
Lao Tzu.

Shieldwall
Topic Master

Cyprus
140 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2008 :  02:03:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hmm, this may be because by Fiore's time we may be looking at the spear being relegated to hunting certain big game, if that. This would be becuase pole arms had progressed into more hybridized forms such as the bill and the pole axe. Thoughts anyone?
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steel bonnet
Master Chat Remedy

United Kingdom
151 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2008 :  09:09:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure there is stuff on spears etc in Fiore, for example see issue two of WMA Illustrated, the article on Fiore's student Galeazzo Da Matova features an illustration of two armed figures engaging in single combat with spears taken from "Il Fior di Battaglia" Indeed, in his introduction (Getty MS) Fiore mentions an instance of single combat between Galeazzo and Marshal Boucicault(or his younger brother) which apparently was fought with spears. Incidentally, Talhoffer's "Fechtbuch"(1467) also shows armoured combatants fighting with spears, I believe Ringeck and Von Danzig also give instruction on the use of the spear.
BTW the bill wasn't a progression from the spear, it was, like the threshall an agricultural tool adapted to martial use.

Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs.
Lao Tzu.
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bruno
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United Kingdom
279 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2008 :  14:44:41  Show Profile  Click to see bruno's MSN Messenger address  Reply with Quote
Hi,

In the Getty MSS Fiore has three pages dedicated to foot combat with spear, in the folio 41 verso and recto, plus folio 42 verso. He also has many pages of mounted spear (ie: lance) and a page on unmounted spearman vs horseman (though the weapon illustrated looks more like a partisan style weapon that a spear as it has lugs on it). We simply haven't gotten around to translating it all yet.

See the Getty website for some pictures...

http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=1706&handle=book&pg=34

Bruno Nicoletti
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steel bonnet
Master Chat Remedy

United Kingdom
151 Posts

Posted - 20 Apr 2008 :  16:38:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Bruno,
the illustration I mentioned is here, bottom left;
http://www.getty.edu/art/gettyguide/artObjectDetails?artobj=143534&handle=li

Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs.
Lao Tzu.
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Mark Lancaster
Forum Admin

United Kingdom
1651 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2008 :  13:47:54  Show Profile  Visit Mark Lancaster's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Ken,

We (read me!) haven't got it all wrapped together yet for the public PDF. It will be coming, though.

Mark Lancaster
Secretary
The Exiles
www.the-exiles.org.uk

Primoris - Fiore training book
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steel bonnet
Master Chat Remedy

United Kingdom
151 Posts

Posted - 24 Apr 2008 :  15:24:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Lancaster

Hi Ken,

We (read me!) haven't got it all wrapped together yet for the public PDF. It will be coming, though.

Cool, Looking forward to seeing it.

Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs.
Lao Tzu.
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