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 Anyone had a look at this yet?

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T O P I C    R E V I E W
steel bonnet Posted - 13 Jul 2009 : 20:27:36
Thoughts, opinions, worth buying?
8   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
Mark Lancaster Posted - 16 Aug 2009 : 20:17:50

I think you just need to be careful of your choice of words - "caricature" is fairly insulting (take a dictionary definition ... "any imitation or copy so distorted or inferior as to be ludicrous").

I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but its still what you posted out publicly.

I'll leave it there,
Mark B Posted - 09 Aug 2009 : 14:26:54
Hi Mike,

in some ways I disagree with you statement:

"nothing compares to the actual scans of the manuals"

Some images from all of the original (if indeed they are) manuals can de very difficult to decipher correctly. I think a trained and understanding eye doing re-draws of the originals can help to clarify certain aspects in a clearer format.

Either way, i'm sure you meant no disrespect, but as Mark said, we have produced this work for free to help in any small way to benefit the community (which many are reluctant to do) and i can see why he has taken offence.

My personal opinion is that most of the re-produced images are actually clearer than those in the manuals. But yes it is horses for courses.

All the best


Mike Chidester Posted - 06 Aug 2009 : 01:49:39
Again, I apologize for any offense. It was not my intent. Your images, as well as your translation, are quite usable; I myself relied heavily upon them for a few years--especially the sections from the Morgan. The images in particular surpass anything that I could produce on my own. But nothing compares to the actual scans of the manuals, which is the point I was trying to convey to the poster.
Mark Lancaster Posted - 05 Aug 2009 : 22:24:12

I don't think comments like your SFI post ...

"Or you can go with the completely free option by using the minis on the Getty site or the caricatures on the Exiles' site (no disrespect intended--they're just not up to par with the originals, nor were they intended to be)."

reflects the amount of actual time and money we've invested in the on-line PDFs. To put this in context -

  • We don't have to do this. We have images and translation for the whole lot and this works fine for us internally.
  • The repro images are martially accurate as far as we are aware. In this context (the important one) they are as good as the originals and most certainly are not "caricatures" of the originals
  • We have spent enough actual cash on the the public/free part of this project that we could easily supply several hundred copies of Tom's (or others) books free
We haven't looked for credit on this project, but we would certainly hope to have a bit of martial respect with regard to the accuracy of our work (caricatures).

I hope that sums up my issues.

Mike Chidester Posted - 29 Jul 2009 : 14:31:04
I'm sorry if I offended you, Mark. That was not my intention. I wanted only to sum up the various Fiore options out there for the uninformed. Personally, I possess every source I mentioned and find that they all have their uses.
Mark Lancaster Posted - 18 Jul 2009 : 05:45:13
I've not gone all the way through the SFI thread (although I did note the "interesting" comments by Michael Chidester which makes me wonder why we bother putting our stuff up).

It's horses for courses - Tom's will be a good translation, but really does need images if it's going to have more general appeal. You can get incomplete free translations from us and Schola G - but they're not in a nice book.

Don't know - generally as a community we've got various translations and illustrations but it does seem a shame that there isn't a single complete combination available (I'll have to look at finishing the formatting ours once Primoris is done - either internally or generally).
spike Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 20:53:15
shame about the pictures, the transcription wouldn't mean much to me without the illustrations.
Declan Posted - 14 Jul 2009 : 20:24:43
I suppose it can't hurt to have a neater (clearer?) translation than what we already have, but the price is a bit steep considering that the book doesn't include any of the illustrations.

Perhaps worth it for interest but not so much as a training aid?

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